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	<title>Comments on: Cyberpunk &#8211; A New Anthology</title>
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	<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/</link>
	<description>...science fiction and other stuff from jonathan strahan...</description>
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		<title>By: Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology &#171; Everything Is Nice</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-523277</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology &#171; Everything Is Nice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 09:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-523277</guid>
		<description>[...] a question Jonathan Strahan has been asking too. He&#8217;s asking because he is putting together a cyberpunk anthology. Inter Nova are also putting together a special cyberpunk issue. So cyberpunk obviously isn&#8217;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a question Jonathan Strahan has been asking too. He&#8217;s asking because he is putting together a cyberpunk anthology. Inter Nova are also putting together a special cyberpunk issue. So cyberpunk obviously isn&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-521745</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-521745</guid>
		<description>I do have a copy and mean to read the chapter. I&#039;m not sure, yet, I&#039;m convinced by its thesis but will read it and see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do have a copy and mean to read the chapter. I&#8217;m not sure, yet, I&#8217;m convinced by its thesis but will read it and see.</p>
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		<title>By: Brit Mandelo</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-521431</link>
		<dc:creator>Brit Mandelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 22:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-521431</guid>
		<description>If you can find a copy of Helen Merrick&#039;s &quot;The Secret Feminist Cabal,&quot; there&#039;s an excellent chapter (#6) on cyberpunk that deconstructs the idea that it was purely a white-male domain or invention; it&#039;s filled with author references, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can find a copy of Helen Merrick&#8217;s &#8220;The Secret Feminist Cabal,&#8221; there&#8217;s an excellent chapter (#6) on cyberpunk that deconstructs the idea that it was purely a white-male domain or invention; it&#8217;s filled with author references, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Person</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-521409</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Person</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 15:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-521409</guid>
		<description>As for the question of Egan&#039;s relation to cyberpunk, &lt;a href=&quot;http://slashdot.org/story/99/10/08/2123255/Notes-Toward-a-Postcyberpunk-Manifesto&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I once had this to say&lt;/a&gt;. It depends on what your definition of cyberpunk is. &quot;Learning to Be me&quot; and &quot;Reasons to Be Cheerful&quot; are both stories that address some of cyberpunk&#039;s central concerns, if not its style.

Of the original cyberpunks&#039; works that weren&#039;t in &lt;b&gt;Mirrorshades&lt;/b&gt;, I would include John Shirley&#039;s &quot;Wolves of the Plateau.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the question of Egan&#8217;s relation to cyberpunk, <a href="http://slashdot.org/story/99/10/08/2123255/Notes-Toward-a-Postcyberpunk-Manifesto" rel="nofollow">I once had this to say</a>. It depends on what your definition of cyberpunk is. &#8220;Learning to Be me&#8221; and &#8220;Reasons to Be Cheerful&#8221; are both stories that address some of cyberpunk&#8217;s central concerns, if not its style.</p>
<p>Of the original cyberpunks&#8217; works that weren&#8217;t in <b>Mirrorshades</b>, I would include John Shirley&#8217;s &#8220;Wolves of the Plateau.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Klotz</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-414545</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Klotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 01:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-414545</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d in general agree that the cyberpunk label doesn&#039;t rest all that well on Egan, the particular story recommended by Blue Tyson, Luminous, feels quite relevant.  Hacking the universe with mathematics to keep reality altering power out of the hands of a large corporation. I happened to have an anthology on hand with that story and just enjoyed the re-read.  I also fairly recently read his first novel, Quarantine.  It starts out pure cyberpunk but eventually settles into the mathematically philosophical hard SF he&#039;s known for.

Thanks a TON for making the database you&#039;re compiling visible.  I&#039;ve already incorporated it into my genre mapping and recommendation utility.  Feel free to check out the &lt;a href=&quot;http://tagshadow.com/pca.php?tagName=cyberpunk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cyberpunk Tagshadow&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d in general agree that the cyberpunk label doesn&#8217;t rest all that well on Egan, the particular story recommended by Blue Tyson, Luminous, feels quite relevant.  Hacking the universe with mathematics to keep reality altering power out of the hands of a large corporation. I happened to have an anthology on hand with that story and just enjoyed the re-read.  I also fairly recently read his first novel, Quarantine.  It starts out pure cyberpunk but eventually settles into the mathematically philosophical hard SF he&#8217;s known for.</p>
<p>Thanks a TON for making the database you&#8217;re compiling visible.  I&#8217;ve already incorporated it into my genre mapping and recommendation utility.  Feel free to check out the <a href="http://tagshadow.com/pca.php?tagName=cyberpunk" rel="nofollow">Cyberpunk Tagshadow</a></p>
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		<title>By: Al Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-414217</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-414217</guid>
		<description>Jonathan: it&#039;s that mean streets thing which is not there in Sterling&#039;s fiction (at least of the period). His protagonists tended to be elites of one sort of another, from the space diplomats of Swarm through the whole Shaper sequence, to the future aristocrats and artists of the Beautiful and the Sublime. Movers and shakers, rather than underdogs like Gibson&#039;s Case. This is the case right through Sterling&#039;s career, up to and including The Caryatids.

I guess the second point is - when you talk about cyberpunk, is it a Movement, a subgenre, or a marketing category? I think it went through all three phases, with decreasing returns. The key figures associated with it, though, had pretty much moved on by the time the term escaped out into the world. 1988 is the cutoff for me - that&#039;s the year that the last of the Sprawl novels came out, and also the year that Sterling published Islands in the Net, which (I think) marked the shift in his concerns to global themes - Earth and the nearish future - that carries right through to his recent books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan: it&#8217;s that mean streets thing which is not there in Sterling&#8217;s fiction (at least of the period). His protagonists tended to be elites of one sort of another, from the space diplomats of Swarm through the whole Shaper sequence, to the future aristocrats and artists of the Beautiful and the Sublime. Movers and shakers, rather than underdogs like Gibson&#8217;s Case. This is the case right through Sterling&#8217;s career, up to and including The Caryatids.</p>
<p>I guess the second point is &#8211; when you talk about cyberpunk, is it a Movement, a subgenre, or a marketing category? I think it went through all three phases, with decreasing returns. The key figures associated with it, though, had pretty much moved on by the time the term escaped out into the world. 1988 is the cutoff for me &#8211; that&#8217;s the year that the last of the Sprawl novels came out, and also the year that Sterling published Islands in the Net, which (I think) marked the shift in his concerns to global themes &#8211; Earth and the nearish future &#8211; that carries right through to his recent books.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-413152</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-413152</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;ve hit on something here.  In many ways, Sterling is the cyberpunk who didn&#039;t really write cyberpunk.  Even his contributions to Mirrorshades are actually collaborations with other writers.  He defiinitely wrote hard SF, and SF with cyborgs, but while he wrote quite a few historical fantasies he didn&#039;t write much about the mean streets. I would say that he turned into one of the great post-cyberpunk writers though.  

I&#039;d also agree that the case for Egan is a cyberpunk seems hard to make. There&#039;s no doubt he fits the &#039;cyber&#039; part of the term and his fiction is dark in places, but I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything &#039;punk&#039; about it at all.  I do wonder about the cyberpunk written after it lost the punk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ve hit on something here.  In many ways, Sterling is the cyberpunk who didn&#8217;t really write cyberpunk.  Even his contributions to Mirrorshades are actually collaborations with other writers.  He defiinitely wrote hard SF, and SF with cyborgs, but while he wrote quite a few historical fantasies he didn&#8217;t write much about the mean streets. I would say that he turned into one of the great post-cyberpunk writers though.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also agree that the case for Egan is a cyberpunk seems hard to make. There&#8217;s no doubt he fits the &#8216;cyber&#8217; part of the term and his fiction is dark in places, but I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything &#8216;punk&#8217; about it at all.  I do wonder about the cyberpunk written after it lost the punk.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-412895</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-412895</guid>
		<description>Strange to see only one Sterling story so far (although I agree that &quot;The Beautiful and the Sublime&quot; is a good one) but in a way it&#039;s not strange either; for all his importance as spokesman of the movement, much of his fiction didn&#039;t seem to fit easily into the category. The Shaper/Mech stories are still fantastic, and they have the requisite density of ideas, crammed prose and eyeball kicks - but there&#039;s precious little that&#039;s &quot;punk&quot; about them.

I certainly don&#039;t see Egan as operating in any kind of cyberpunk tradition. And while I think it&#039;s legitimate to talk about stories that anticipated or shaped the movement before it crystallised, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s any sense in which one can talk about writing cyberpunk after about 1988. That&#039;s my take, anyway: it was a specific movement borne of a particular period, and it lived fast and died young.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange to see only one Sterling story so far (although I agree that &#8220;The Beautiful and the Sublime&#8221; is a good one) but in a way it&#8217;s not strange either; for all his importance as spokesman of the movement, much of his fiction didn&#8217;t seem to fit easily into the category. The Shaper/Mech stories are still fantastic, and they have the requisite density of ideas, crammed prose and eyeball kicks &#8211; but there&#8217;s precious little that&#8217;s &#8220;punk&#8221; about them.</p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t see Egan as operating in any kind of cyberpunk tradition. And while I think it&#8217;s legitimate to talk about stories that anticipated or shaped the movement before it crystallised, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any sense in which one can talk about writing cyberpunk after about 1988. That&#8217;s my take, anyway: it was a specific movement borne of a particular period, and it lived fast and died young.</p>
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		<title>By: Links: 3-4-2010 &#171; MentatJack</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-412885</link>
		<dc:creator>Links: 3-4-2010 &#171; MentatJack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-412885</guid>
		<description>[...] even more tasty morsel. Jonathan Strahan is doing a cyberpunk anthology for Night Shade Books and he&#8217;s looking for your favorite cyberpunk stories. The coolest part for me is that the running list is publicly visible, so expect some additions to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] even more tasty morsel. Jonathan Strahan is doing a cyberpunk anthology for Night Shade Books and he&#8217;s looking for your favorite cyberpunk stories. The coolest part for me is that the running list is publicly visible, so expect some additions to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-412858</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-412858</guid>
		<description>Hey Bruce - I am still unsure about  Egan as a cyberpunk writer - Spinrad is interesting - Will also check out the Card - Thanks for the recs!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Bruce &#8211; I am still unsure about  Egan as a cyberpunk writer &#8211; Spinrad is interesting &#8211; Will also check out the Card &#8211; Thanks for the recs!!</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-412849</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-412849</guid>
		<description>Hmmm...

Johnny Mnemonic - William Gibson [likely &#039;Dogfight&#039; [with Michael Swanwick]as well

Dogwalker - Orson Scott Card

The Caress - Greg Egan [?] I sure like this story though...this and &#039;Learning to be Me&#039; were a gateway drug to Egan&#039;s work.

Probably some Norman Spinrad...&#039;Streetmeat&#039; might apply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;</p>
<p>Johnny Mnemonic &#8211; William Gibson [likely 'Dogfight' [with Michael Swanwick]as well</p>
<p>Dogwalker &#8211; Orson Scott Card</p>
<p>The Caress &#8211; Greg Egan [?] I sure like this story though&#8230;this and &#8216;Learning to be Me&#8217; were a gateway drug to Egan&#8217;s work.</p>
<p>Probably some Norman Spinrad&#8230;&#8217;Streetmeat&#8217; might apply.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-412844</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-412844</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the recommendations.  I&#039;ve read Nova but will check out the Tiptree story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recommendations.  I&#8217;ve read Nova but will check out the Tiptree story.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/2010/03/04/cyberpunk-a-new-anthology/comment-page-1/#comment-412843</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanstrahan.com.au/wp/?p=2164#comment-412843</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mother in the Sky with Diamonds&quot; - James Tiptree Junior - classic proto-cyberpunk work. I don&#039;t know exactly when it was published, though, but it&#039;s pre-1973.

I also think NOVA is worty of mention since it anticipates many cyberpunk tropes although it&#039;s obviously not short fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mother in the Sky with Diamonds&#8221; &#8211; James Tiptree Junior &#8211; classic proto-cyberpunk work. I don&#8217;t know exactly when it was published, though, but it&#8217;s pre-1973.</p>
<p>I also think NOVA is worty of mention since it anticipates many cyberpunk tropes although it&#8217;s obviously not short fiction.</p>
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